I should add an hasta luego as well.
In a move that took me by surprise the Arizona Diamondbacks signed Madison Bumgarner for five years and $85M. Forgive me if I think they got him on the cheap. The Giants supposedly offered a similar yearly salary but for only four years. And it turns out that Bum and his wife love Arizona and have property there. So he wanted to go. At least that's the way I see it. And good for him. He's a free agent after a decade in the bigs and he gets to call his own shots. That's the way it should be.
Of course he will be missed. Few players in the history of the team are equally accomplished and entertaining. Some are accomplished and some are entertaining, few can do both. Madison Bumgarner did everything you can ask from a player and did it with panache. He managed to surpass, in his Giants legacy, the two aces who came before him: Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum. That's some damn fine work.
I hope he stays healthy and pitches well in Arizona. Except against the Giants, of course. I'll want to see 2-2/3 IP, 8 H, 5 R, that sort of thing. Against LA I'll be rooting for shutouts!
--M.C.
23 comments:
Apparently the Giants were ready to talk extension with Bumgarner in 2017 but the dirt bike accident pushed the timetable back. A missed opportunity, to be sure. Plus they had low-cost options on him for '18 and '19 when they had really hefty payrolls (4th and 3rd-highest). They had exceeded the CBT in '17 and did not want to do be a repeat offender.
I'm not feeling the pain about this event because it has been a open possibility for some time--it didn't just happen all of a sudden.
But it is a bummer nonetheless. Seeing him in "sedona red" is going to take some getting used to. At least it ain't "dodger blue."
I would have felt a little better if he were not signed by the giants if someone gave him a 5 or 6 year deal worth 120 to 140, million, but for this deal, unless he gets hurt, looks like a steal. He may have been cheaper than Samardjiza. He is only 30 years old. There may be other reasons besides just the Arizona local. Certainly it is not as good of a pitchers park, but he should be able to hit well. Guys who can go out and give you 20 quality starts are worth something. I am sure that this has fans even more upset than their unhappiness about Pillar, but this one may even be more rational. Both players gave a lot of innings, and were all heart. Bumgarner is still a very good pitcher. I do not expect him to fade as quickly as Lincecum, Cain, or Sanchez. I have to wonder what Cueto is thinking about the rotation. Of course he will say it is a business, but players have emotions, and the loss of seasoned professional is probably even harder on the clubhouse than it is on the fans. Why is this loss so difficult for fans. I think because he was essentially a character that seemed larger than life. Best of luck to Bumgarner against everyone except the giants, or for some reason a team that somehow needs to beat the Dbacks in order to help the giants. Otherwise, may he win 20 games a season for the next 5 years.
PS: I predict it right here. Bumgarner will throw his first no hitter, and likely perfect game against the giants.
Just taught in my special MadBum shirt for the last time on Saturday, then. Several people walked into the Studio, saw my shirt, & wondered whether he would be gone by the end of the weekend. Unfortunately, they were right.
When that f-ing dirt bike accident happened, I wondered whether it would be a franchise future changing event. It occurred not too long after, just before a big free agency moment in the career of Wes Matthews, he ruptured his achilles tendon at a Game that I attended. The dominoes of that injury ended up including a complete re-boot & overhaul of the Blazers' Team, after it appeared that they already had something set up for long-term success.
The Giants really need 1 or 2 SP's to emerge from what seemed like a deep pool of minor league talent, because the Giants obviously aren't going to compete for any of the big-time FA's for awhile.
They did end up getting a lot of utility at relatively low cost for Bumgarner, because his FA timing didn't coincide w/ his maximum value. Can't feel sorry for him, though. He's still plenty wealthy.
The pool of prospects is like having some little league kids playing with the varsity squad. No one wants to watch developing players. Ownership has turned there backs on the fan base and for what prospects. Granted we had the good times for a while but everyone forgets the pain and suffering for decade's. Now were back to the pain, we didn't get our new management team because they are good. We got them because they are not winners. It's hard to go from driving a Ferrari to a Corolla just because it a car and cheaper. You get what you pay for. We will be bottom dwellers for a long time. The hit list will continue craw, buster, shark, and Cueto will be gone in the next year as well. There is no love for the players that got them the rings. At least tickets will be cheaper.
I think the Giants showed remarkable "love" for the players that brought them championships. All of them--except for Bum--were secured on long-term deals and compensated at a fair rate. In fact the team went to great lengths to "keep the band together" in order to keep the fans excited.
Take a look at the payroll history. Giants may have fucked up some things, but opening the wallet was not one of them. Ownership and the Front Office doubled down on the core players. That strategy is no longer paying off and it is time to rebuild. Is it painful? Of course. But they have to go forward with a new approach. Whether the new crew is the right bunch only time will tell--we can't accuse them of being "losers" yet.
One of the things that struck me about this entire Bumgarner episode was that few seemed to ask what Bum wanted. It was all fans and media types doing the talking, and all of them demanding Bumgarner, or this, or that, or something else. Turns out Bumgarner WANTED to go to Arizona!
Good for him. He's a grownup and he gets to decide--for the first time in his career--where he wants to play. I think the Giants showed Bumgarner respect by allowing him the space to make his own choice. Yes, the fans are pissed. But fans are fickle and forget quickly. I'm reminded of the outrage the Matt Williams trade generated. It was quickly forgotten when the team won ballgames. (And in that case they had control over Williams' future. In this case, Bum was a free agent and controlled his own fate.)
This fan wants to watch developing players. This is the time in the organizational cycle to re-tool and re-stock and build a new team. I'm looking forward to it. Even if the stink, there will be upside and hope for the future. After 2017 it was pretty clear the existing squad was not up to the task anymore and the band-aids weren't going to be enough. Now they are biting the bullet and getting the work done that needs doing.
https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/nl-west/san-francisco-giants/
Should have been an active link to Cot's Contracts.
From today's Chronicle: “I hope Giants fans don’t see this as a lack of loyalty on Bum’s part,” (Stephen) Vogt said. “That’s thrown around a lot, and it’s unfair to both sides. The business side of baseball is what it is.”
Rest assured, Stephen, it's not Bum's lack of loyalty that the fans will see. I wonder if the Giants plan is just to be a feeder team to the major leagues like Miami or Baltimore. I'd say the dbacks got a deal for Madbum, and the fact that the Giants wouldn't match that says volumes. They are rebuilding, and doing so by tearing down everything. I guess we should have seen that coming when they let Vogt walk, and let Pillar walk, and here is another half-assed effort to sign a Giant star (read, not really an effort at all). I'm glad as hell that FZ has hired a bunch of his bff's and drinking buddies to be executives, but I'm not paying to watch those guys. Coaches either.
Most of the advanced metrics are about assigning value for players. It might be hard to fathom is Gerrit Cole is worth $324 million, but by comparison, Madbum is worth a hell of a lot more than $85. But not to the Giants. Ask yourself, what have we had to cause us to tune in the last couple miserable years? Cueto (until he got hurt) and Madbum. Because when he would start, anything could happen. He could, on any given day, give us a near-complete game of dominant pitching and throw in a couple of home runs. I wonder if the analysis included how many casual fans would be lost because there are no recognizable (or worthwhile) players on the team? They can turn up the between innings music even louder and it wouldn't get those people back.
The Giants are now a team that is significantly worse and much, much less interesting to watch. And someone is going to have to go a long way to convince me that there is any kind of a plan here other than churning through draft picks and marginal players and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. Kevin Gausman my ass.
Bah!
ps. The whole "Bum wanted to go to Arizona" thing - I don't believe that for a minute.
Really? Why not? I've seen multiple sources confirming that he and his wife have property there and love the place. Why is that so hard to believe?
We got a decade of great performances from Bumgarner. I'm happy about that. And I'm OK with him moving on.
Yes, it will take a while before we have new players that we can get behind and root for. Did we really think we could just keep patching together a roster behind Bum and Posey and hoping the "magic" would happen again? They tried that, didn't they? And it failed!
It is a mistake to get hung up on the "price" of a ballplayer. Every team is different and has different needs and the price they pay for one ballplayer may have nothing to do at all with the price for another ballplayer. To the Yankees, Cole is obviously "worth" what they are paying him.
C'mo,n guys. This team was not very watchable even WITH Bum and Boch and Pillar and etc! It is past time to get a new team.
FWIW (this is from Baggs' column at The Athletic):
A few weeks before the July 31 trade deadline, Madison Bumgarner and I stood next to the indoor batting cage and talked about destinations. Which teams would make a trade pitch for him? Where did he see himself playing? If he could choose to wear another uniform, which would he prefer?
He was intrigued by the Atlanta Braves and the Houston Astros, as you might imagine. But he volunteered the name of another team — one that probably wouldn’t be active at the trade deadline. “I could see Arizona,” he said. “Ali and I just really, really like it there.”
Here's the link. It is behind a paywall.
I kept going back to that behind-the-scenes comment this winter, as Bumgarner rumors would link him to one team or another. And I was probably the least surprised reporter in North America when the Diamondbacks reportedly signed Bumgarner to a five-year, $85 million contract on Saturday.
From a standard of living perspective, spring training was Bumgarner’s favorite time of year. He’d drive his horse trailer from North Carolina (and used that as an excuse to get out of more than one FanFest in San Francisco). His wife, Ali, loved the area as well.
I think we have to give players credit for being adults and knowing what they want.
Now, I understand if people think the Giants did not make a proper effort to keep Bumgarner around. They--apparently--were ready to move on. One can assume that's due to cheapness, or incompetence, or contempt for the fan base, or bad analysis, or any of a number of things. Maybe the Owners laid down some parameters the Baseball Ops people have to go along with (I assume most ownership groups do such things) that we as fans aren't privy to.
I'm not going to assume it is because FZ & Co. don't give a shit or don't want to compete. I don't think you get a job in the big leagues if you aren't a fiercely competitive person who wants to be part of a winner.
They are in the team-building business. They are going about it their way. Just because it doesn't match what we think "ought" to be happening does not mean it can't or won't work.
That sounds quite logical, except Bumgarner was on public record saying he would like to stay with the giants, and in the model of developing a winning team, their seems to be nothing in their algorithm where the fans remain happy and gung ho, during the process. I hope the Marlin's and the Oriole's GM's these days take the jobs to develop a winning team, or do they just take a current bottom feeders job to obtain experience. Good points about Arizona. Even Bumgarner may be subject to his wife's preferences.
I think most Front Offices work on the "winning teams sell seats" philosophy. And I don't understand fans, I'll admit that. You'd think fans would be happy that the team recognizes that it stinks and that they need to bring in new talent. The Giants have been doing the Nostalgia Train for three losing seasons. All the fan favorites were out there playing but they couldn't crack .500! Sometimes you have to face the music and make some goddamn changes.
I completely believe that Bum and Ali would prefer to live in Arizona instead of the Bay Area. They are country folk who love the company of animals and wide open spaces, which are much easier to find around Phoenix. I love Bum and am very sad to see him leave, but so it goes in this game. I remember when the Willies were traded. We survived... At least he didn't go to LA so I can cheer for him once in a while. And I would have missed those classic Kershaw/Bumgarner matchups if they were on the same team.
If the team was bad for the last 3 years, I guess getting rid of some of the better players, with the probability that attendance goes down is a good thing. However, we do not know what is going to happen during the rest of the off season, or even early in the season. Perhaps we will not end up being a 99 loss team. But with this theory of we will be bad for a few years until we are good, suggests to me that the players will have no incentive to give it that full 100 plus percent effort. Why should they? Money? They are professionals and from early on in pro ball have been told that winning is everything. And now, management says, well maybe it is but not for you guys, it will be for the stud draft picks we now have in the minors of perhaps 2022 or 2023. So enjoy being a place holder for that time, and maybe if one or two of you have good years, your next contract with another team may be better than you expected.
I see it more like "hey kid you are one of a few thousand guys in the world who is able to get a shot at big-league baseball--show us what you got!"
I would think that professionals, as you say, are just that. They show up and do their best at their jobs. There is no reason to believe that the players will be glum-faced kindergartners who can't go out to recess because it is raining. They will be getting big-league coaching and big-league opportunities in big-league stadiums against real big-leaguers! That works for me. You don't know what your players can do until you give them the chance to play. And I hope we see lots guys getting chances.
I'm not dismayed by the roster-churning. This is a hard business to crack into. Most guys won't make it. But some guys will stick, and I'm ready to invest in them.
I'm not assuming the Giants will stink. I'm prepared for it because it seems they are really doing the hard, painful stuff a re-build requires. And re-builds can sometimes get ugly. But there is time left before the season, we'll see what happens.
What surprises me, about all this, is that Madison Bumgarner did not get a $100+M contract. There was not a lot of action on him. Most projections systems are not kind to him and I'm not sure why, perhaps it is because power is easier to project. Bum has always been a deception and command guy, not really a blazing fastball type. You'd think that would age well, I mean, getting older and smarter and really knowing how to get guys out. Plus if any player has the "intangibles" they all gush about it would have to be Bum. I wonder why he didn't generate as much enthusiasm as Zack Wheeler, for example.
Just another mystery of "the market" I suppose.
Corey Kluber didn't draw much interest and the Indians let him go for a part-time OF and a reliever with upside. He's a 2-time CYA winner! But, he is 34 and coming off a major injury. Even so, you'd think guys like him would be more valuable.
Maybe that's why the Giants didn't trade Bum, they knew they would not get anything too exciting. The fans would have howled even more. At least with free agency the story can be about him leaving rather than the Giants giving him away.
The owners and GMs have figured out how to game the system. They have simply decided not to pay big money except for a few elite players. That opens up opportunities for teams to get guys on the cheap, but it certainly lowers the earning power and employment chances for many veteran players. I note that Adam Jones, who the D-Backs picked up last spring (Giants fans complained about that one, thinking the team needed ANOTHER aging outfielder!), went to Japan to play.
And I also note that Scott Boras got his people signed right away instead of dragging it out. He knows which way the wind is blowing. I hope the MLBPA hires better negotiators for the next round as the players have gotten their asses kicked lately.
Well, there's this: http://www.knbr.com/2019/12/17/baggarly-suggests-giants-offered-bumgarner-best-deal-they-knew-he-wouldnt-accept/
And this: http://www.knbr.com/2019/12/18/michael-morse-says-giants-offered-bumgarner-extension-that-was-almost-like-a-slap-in-the-face/
These are both on the former management, but then, the current management didn't exactly change his mind.
I think the Giants let Bumgarner decide what he wanted. How anyone can interpret that as a "slap in the face" is beyond me. Sounds like one set of grownups giving another grownup the space and freedom to make his own decision. We should all be so lucky.
One set of grownups in SF should have offered him more to stay.
I think young players, feel fortunate enough that they are one of the few who make it to the majors. But players who have been around for a half dozen years or so, or more, with some exception, just are not going to give it the same zeal that they would on a team with a great chance to win. They compete at the highest level they can until they don't. At some point they may say, why should I dive for that ball, I may get injured and ruin my chances for my next contract where maybe I can be a piece on a winning team. The superstars may not do that and the young players may not do that, but you can be sure that many human beings, even those with the great talent and fortune to have made it to the "show" will do that. The 162 game season with all the travel can be a struggle. There is nothing like winning, to put all the things that bug a player, on the side, and go out there and give it all they can. Some folks in all walks of life do the right thing when no one is looking. Others just do not. I remember when Gary Sheffield was accused of tanking it. He is just one example. And, he was a very good player.
Winning is better for everything. Better for fans, better for attendance and revenue, better for players' attitudes . . .
It's a truism. Of course winning is better.
All you can hope for is that pride and professionalism take over. I don't fear players tanking it because they don't like what ownership is doing. And if they do I hope the coaches call them on it. They are big boys. They may have to fight to figure it out, but they'll figure it out. And if they don't the changes will come. One thing about this new outfit is they aren't afraid to make changes.
I think the Bumgarner and Bochy situations are similar. Boch knew it was time for ownership to make changes, and he had the smarts and grace to leave on his own. Bum could see that the team was bad. He's not a fool. He decided he'd like it better on a team with an immediate chance to make the post-season. Add in the personal stuff and I think it was a done deal. The Giants could have gone higher, of course. But money doesn't buy everything.
There's nothing more that Bumgarner could accomplish in SF. He's one of the greatest Giants ever. Now he's getting a fresh start--but in a familiar place. He doesn't have to go through the painful re-build process. At some point they--the championship bunch--are all going to be gone from the roster. Bum got to pick when he left. I see this as a very considerate and professional move by FZ and ownership to allow him a classy exit. They respected the free agency that he had earned after ten seasons.
Of course it is sad. I'm not happy. But I'm not going to complain or look back. A new team is going to be built in front of us and I want to follow that team, just like I've followed every other Giants team.
I think any assumption by Bumgarner that the giants will be bad, also assumes that Posey will not return to form, or that the giants were not going to sign anyone else in the very near future to make the giants competitive. It also could signal that Bumgarner did not think that he could make much of a difference on the giants. Or perhaps, it was hype all along that he still enjoys pitching to Posey. I do think that tanking in the "show" is subtle, but becomes more apparent when several players are doing it. In that case management had better call them out on it. Over the last few years, Crawford has just been a slow starter on offense. It helps to have a few guys who come out of the gate on fire. I just do not know that the promise of being very good in 2022 or 2023 makes fans come out in droves to games in 2020, or 2021 despite the desire to see some young players developing. The giants will still have a strong base if they come around in a couple of years, but that base will not be what it was for quite some time. Again, all assuming that management does not have some magical solution up their collective sleeves.
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