Saturday, August 8, 2015

No Fun in Wrigley, Again

Matt Cain got battered by Chicago hitters for four innings and then was mercifully yanked by manager Bruce Bochy after the first two batters reached in the 5th. The veteran right-hander had thrown 97 pitches at that point, yielding six hits (one homer), walking five, and plunking two. Considering that line it was fortunate the Cubs only scored five runs. Cain had plenty of zip (I saw 93 mph on the scoreboard) and plenty movement but lacked command. Just about every pitch he threw to the outside corner was a ball and when he would come in they would rake it. Guys are going up to bat against Matty wiping the drool from their lips! They are swinging early and often and getting results. That's 46 hits and 23 runs in 37 innings pitched (159 batters faced) against only 24 strikeouts. It's tough times for the Tennessee Stud. It's hard to know what to think--will he find his way out of this funk in time? I imagine he is penciled in for ten more starts and if so the team will need to see a turnaround, and soon.

Brandon Belt hit a two-run homer and Brandon Crawford hit an RBI double, Hunter Pence scoring both times, and that was the Giants offense until the 9th. Santiago Casilla gave up three runs in the bottom of the 8th to make it 8-3 Cubs. The Giants threatened at the end when Ehire Adrianza smashed an RBI double (scoring BCraw) and Angel Pagan and Nori Aoki got two-out hits to make it 8-6, but Matt Duffy grounded out to end it. Fortunately the Pirates held on for a narrow victory over the Dodgers and the deficit is still three games. Here's other good news: Andrew Susac starts his rehab in AAA on Tuesday.

Jake Peavy tomorrow. Go Giants!



Zo said...

That's 13 runs wasted in 3 days. We have given up 20. Our offense is working, our pitching, not so much.

nomisnala said...

Our hitting also had plenty of chances to score more.

JC Parsons said...

The starters have been rather shitty this road trip, no way to sugar coat that. What are they, 1-5 on the trip with a ERA around 6? Not even 50 innings in 9 starts? That is going to just kill the bullpen, which is pretty much what we are seeing. Matt was scary bad yesterday. Dare I say it, that start reminded me of Lincecum (if Tim could break 90 mph). Good stuff, but he had no clue where it was going. Every inning was stressful and filled with base runners. Which was very Tim like too. Basically, a nightmare.

Sunday game starts in a few minutes. Pagan gets the bench, thank Willie. He looked horrible yesterday. He better be injured, otherwise he looks like he is giving up. Not good.

After the season BCraw is having , you would think I would no longer be surprised by his everyday performance. Not so. Each day he makes plays and takes at bats that are VERY impressive. Each day.

carmot said...

We're left "hoping" for many factors to fall into place. No bueno. I mean, IF we're going to make a playoff push. Even with a great offense, our pitching just isn't enough. No more injuries. Lots of arms need to improve. Hot bats stay hot. Young guys keep producing. I think we've seen enough flaws (base running, defense, pitching, injuries, lack of bench depth, etc.) to realize we're more like an 86 win team that needs to perform above that level, than a 92-win team that just needs to stay healthy.

What if the game today goes three innings before a 2-hour rain delay? Oh great. I think if we just go off their most recent outings, our relievers have allowed all 7 inherited runners to score. Romo, Affeldt, Lopez, Kontos, and Petit. Let's go Giants. From the 5th inning on, hope we're always holding the lead. And it's not a 5+ hour game.

carmot said...

Wow, ouch. Seems like somebody much Higher Up than Bochy wants to keep Pagan in CF and leading off. I mean, perhaps some deity, or non-deity. Somebody. It has been ordained. Pagan must lead off. Pagan must play in CF. This cannot be altered.

"This is not good, folks." Sure hope Aoki will be alright.

M.C. O'Connor said...

I know, it was horrid. Such a wonderful ballplayer and such terrible luck in 2015.

Zo said...

"Our offense is working, our pitching, not so much." Whoever said this was an idiot. Today our pitching was all in all, pretty good. At least we got 5 innings out of Peavy, although it took a lot of pitches to get that far. Still, 3 relievers used. Thank goodness for a day off.

nomisnala said...

In this series the giants lost 6 of 7 replay reviews. Finally they get some
calls on the field and they are reversed, even when it was very hard to tell.
It seems when they go the other way they never get reversed. As bad as Pagan
is, in Sunday's game in the ninth, after Sanchez's worst major league at bat
ever, gets a pitch about a foot outside called a strike. Instead of walking
in a run, later he swings at another ball 4, and strikes out, but he had to protect.
And if one does not over protect like Blanco, a close pitch, probably about 3 inches
outside called strike 3 to end the game. Casilla in this series had several pitches
better than that pitch called a ball. So when the giants were going good on their
hot streak, plenty of calls went their way. During this cold streak, even when a call
went their way, it was reversed. I would like to see some kind of automatic ball and
strike call, as a key mistake during a crucial at bad can literally change the outcome
of a game. That being said, if Aoki is ok, the lineup need to have Aoki leading off, and
when Panik comes back he needs to bo back to batting second. Also Bochy needs to mix his
righies and lefties better. To easy to bring in a loogy and a roogy to face Crawford, and
Belt, and then Posey and Pence. Maybe the order can be Posey, Crawford, Pence Belt, or some related sequence. Get Pagan healthy for the stretch run, right now playing with whatever injury he has, is not helping. The guy is a gamer, and his performance has to be killing him. Still plenty of time, I expect the giants to be 3 games out going into Monday, and there is plenty of time to take the division. It seems every time the giants get close they turn around and fade. If they can get the team healthy for the last 6 weeks they may be able to overtake the bums.

Ron said...

Expect Chase Utley to be a Giant by the end of the day.

M.C. O'Connor said...

Utley was always the best player on that Phillies team. If the Giants are scouting him that means they think Panik's injury is serious. They don't need Utley, they need their pitchers to perform! But if Panik is out, they will miss his bat. Utley is 36--I imagine he can still hit despite his performance this year, but can he still pick it?

JC Parsons said...

So here's why I could not be a manager. After yesterday, I would make it my cause to NEVER let Hector Sanchez swing a bat in a MLB game again. Yes, I have a lot of petty anger and I'm pretty much dumping on him, but I must say it feels good. Hector has never been on my favorites list but I've been giving him a break since the concussion thing. Yesterday was it though. That was easily the worst AB of the year and it cut straight to my heart. No, he must go. I can not bare to gaze upon him further. Guess I need a day off.

Just as the image of that strike out won't leave my dreams, the beaning of Nori Aoki is something I won't soon forget. I will be very surprised if there are not some ill effects still to come. He got clocked! 92 mph on the forehead! Poor guy. I greatly enjoy watching him and his cool style of play. The idea of zombie Pagan out there is rather chilling. But more importantly, I sure hope Aoki is OK and I wonder if he has ever had to deal with that before. It can really fuck up your approach for a while.

Those two aspects of yesterday's game are enough to make it the worst of the year. Besides the horrible effect on the standings, which I don't even want to worry about right now. The doggers got swept too right?

JC Parsons said...

Picking up Utley screams that the Panik injury is worse than they say. They deny that, but come on. Veteran savvy off the bench? Makes no sense unless they need a long term fix.

Shields cleared waivers. Are we desperate enough?

Ron said...

The first step has been taken: Utley is on revocable trade waivers.

Ron said...

Y'all are in a bit of a panic over Panik. That the Giants are considering the acquisition of Utley is not an absolute statement about Panik's prospects for a full 2015 recovery. If they play their cards right, they can get Utley without having to pay him much this season & without being on-the-hook for his 2016 option to kick in. He could spell Panik for awhile. But, then, he would provide us with a legitimate bench threat. We don't need a late inning defensive specialist at 2B or SS, because our Starters there are very good. Therefore, Adrianza occupying a roster spot is not very useful, if Panik comes back. A veteran bat would be much more important. And, even if Panik comes back, & Adrianza goes back down to Sacramento, Adrianza will be back on September 1 anyway (which is pretty soon). I think that it's a $2M move worth making.

Now, getting involved in Shields is much dicier - lots of money to absorb with that Contract. Even with our current predicament with Starters, this may be too much to take on.

As Jon & I have been saying for awhile, & no one has refuted, I think that what we need is a proven Relief Pitcher. There are always a few out there, all of the way until August 31.

JC Parsons said...

If the Phillies will take Hector Sanchez, then YES I'm all for it!

JC Parsons said...

Doesn't Utley live in the Bay Area in the off season? That stuff seems to matter sometimes, sure did with Lester.

Ron said...

Utley lives in Sausalito - his Wife is from the Bay Area.

carmot said...

Oh, I hope Panik isn't seriously hurt. Seems like the only reason we'd even be shopping in the Utley aisle. Like others here have mentioned, my concern goes out to Panik.

Hector? Yeah, but other Giants had opportunities throughout the game to produce runs. Truly, Sanchez's AB looked horrible. But I still have noticed little things. I always felt he's about the worst MLB catcher blocking pitches to his right. He's improved a heckuva lot at that this season. When he first came up, he used to always keep his target moving with that damn snatching motion- like a clam shell. Drove me nuts. And he often leaves his right hand exposed.

Honestly, I've never been a big fan of Hector's. But perhaps we can try to be fair. His glove has been quieter, he's improved incrementally over the years. He's calling good games, his overall catcher ERA is fantastic. And as our #3 catcher, IMO, his catching is a much higher priority than his bat. Our bench should have a fifth player- so Hector (and/or Tomlinson) isn't put into that clutch role too often. YMMV.

2015 Catcher IP/ERA's, ranked in descending order:
-- Heston: Posey 82.0/3.18, Sanchez 22.0/3.27, Susac 30.2/4.40
-- Peavy: Sanchez 6.0/0.00, Susac 16.1/2.20, Posey 28.0/5.46
-- Hudson: Sanchez 7.0/3.86, Posey 63.1/4.55, Susac 31.0/5.23
-- Vogey: Susac 29.2/1.82, Posey 72.0/4.88, Sanchez 4.0/11.25
-- Petit: Sanchez 8.0/2.25, Posey 37.0/3.89, Susac 14.2/6.14
-- Cain: Susac 11.0/4.09, Posey 26.0/6.23
-- Bumgarner: has only worked w/ Posey 145.1/3.22

My apologies. It's never my intention to hijack your blog. Cheers.

JC Parsons said...

Hijacking is cool, especially if you include stats! Mmmm, stats...

carmot said...

A couple quick notes.

Adrianza cannot simply shuttle back to Sac. He's out of options. Cleared waivers once, might not clear again. I really don't know.

Utley's contract seems to allow club options at 5M, 7M, 9M, or 11M- depending on how many days he's on the active roster. I'll take a WAG here and say maybe 7 million dollars for 2016.

Y'all read about the crazy bomb threat at Wrigley? Dang. Glad everybody is alright.

People are jumping the gun wanting to get rid of Hector. But who would be our #3 catcher if not him? We don't even have Quiroz any longer. That might be cause for concern. Going nuclear over Hector's terrible AB... Everybody else in these lineups this whole series had opportunities, too. But yeah, I get it. But I'm not capable of singling out Sanchez to be pushed off the bridge. YMMV.

Oh. Grats to all of you. I think I just got RMC placed on the NSA watchlist: bomb, hijacking, nuclear, bridge, shuttle, out of options, lineups, singling out, 7 million dollars, gun, opportunities, ... Hey, I didn't even include "Panic." I mean, Panik. Doh. Whoops... Cheers!

Zo said...

Susac is supposed to start a rehab assignment and play for Sacramento on Tuesday. What is revocable waivers? Does that mean the Phils pull Utley back and then make a trade with the Giants (instead of just letting the Giants claim him)? Utley was terrible before going on the DL - that is one reason (along with his cost) that the Phils were not able to trade him before now. He has gone 4 for 10 with 3 doubles since coming off of the DL. Small sample size.

carmot said...

Yes, Zo. Revocable waivers means a team can pull a player back. But, I don't know why the Phillies WOULD revoke a waiver claim. They aren't going anywhere, and it would save them money if he got claimed. They'd be happy to let him go, methinks. Even though he's a franchise guy. No team will claim him. And take his full remaining 2015 salary. So... he''ll "clear waivers" and be available to be traded to ANY team. Then, PHI can add some salary relief in hopes of getting a decent prospect in return.

This is where if I were a relief prospect like Dan Slania... I might get worried. I doubt we'd give up somebody like Osich, Broadway, or Law. But maybe Slania or Cody Hall. Bandilla?

From a Washington Post article:
That night Utley went 2 for 4 to cap the kind of remarkable week that has marked so many of his 13 seasons with the Phillies. In seven games, Utley went 11 for 24 (.458) with five doubles, a triple, and four walks, good for an OPS of 1.286.

But the most amazing part: That stretch raised his average for the season to .179.

That article was written on May 23, 2015. Yeah. And a SSS since coming off the DL recently, too. Utley might help a team, might not. I think we need starting pitching much more than 2B depth right now. Or an outfield option that can play some CF? Justin Ruggiano? Last 20 games at AAA: .342/.429/.595/1.024, 8 2B/4 HR.

M.C. O'Connor said...

Indeed Hector's AB was as bad as it gets, but he's our #3 catcher!! You can't dump a catcher until you have a guy to take his spot. Catchers are the most valuable commodity in baseball--there just are not enough of them to go around. How do you think Eli Whiteside kept a job? Because he put on the tools of ignorance! This is why I'm excited about Susac coming back. Take a look at the top 30 SF prospects only ONE catcher in the bunch!! (And he's 22 and in the Sally League.) There are two guys at AAA but neither are on the 40-man roster, so it's Hector until something big changes.

Speaking of big changes, there is no way Chase Utley goes to SF to be a backup. This is a six-time All-Star, a $15M/yr and 3 or 4-WAR/yr player. I have a hard time believing he gets traded to sit and be a super-sub. If Panik is healthy and ready to return then they don't need Utley. Sure, it would be great to have him, but like I said I'd be shocked if he accepted a part-time role after his long and exceptional career. He's playing now after a long layoff--the only way his hitting recovers is if he gets sufficient PAs and playing time.

Revocable waivers are just that. The Phils can "test the waters" and see if there is interest. It's a way to work out a trade deal after the deadline. Most of time nothing happens. If no one claims Utley then they can trade him. If someone claims him they can get him and take on his contract or the Phils can say "whoops" and pull him back.

Ron said...

At the risk of fanning flames of dissent (which is kind of fun on an off day anyway), what justifies the following statement: "I'd be shocked if he accepted a part-time role after his long & exceptional career." This is a guy who put together 5 very good seasons quite a long time ago now. He is getting toward the end of a very good, but not fantastic career (partially due to injuries, otherwise he may have been in-the-running for something bigger). He has no right to expect to be an everyday player on a good team - last year, he was an OK everyday player on a shitty team, & he is now a year older & more hurt. Therefore, I maintain that the Giants should bring him into a reasonably winning situation, & try to extract a few good months out of him on the cheap. If all goes well (his option will not kick in), then they can talk to him about a utility / inspirational role for 2016. We have a reasonably good track record of doing this with formerly good players (obviously, this doesn't always work out, but ... e.g. the guy scouting him, Pat Burrell).

carmot said...

"... into a reasonably winning situation."

LOL. Hahaha. You crack me up, Ron! So funny! But damn, also sadly accurate.

M.C. O'Connor said...

Fan away, bra! That's what we are here for.

I get that Utley is old and coming off an injury-plagued season. But the Phils aren't trading him for a bag of peanuts. He's still Chase Utley. Take a look at middle infielders with 60 career WAR. Pretty select company--Biggio, for example, Sandberg, Alomar. I disagree with your assessment of his career. To paraphrase Bill James, if you break Utley in half you get two Marco Scutaros.

But we really have no idea what he has left in the tank. He may have several productive seasons. A lefty with good plate discipline, can play 1B or DH, probably even a passable 3B, he could go anywhere. Is he ready to be a part-timer? Maybe. But I don't believe HE thinks that.

It strikes me that maybe the Giants are just doing "due diligence" and checking out ALL available 2B starters in case they need one. Some Philly writer saw the scouts and told a story about the Giants "interest" in their boy. Maybe they do this shit all the time and it's not really a story. Fanning the flames, as it were.

nomisnala said...

Two UCLA infielders. Interesting. But that is all we need is another injured second baseman to add to the list. The Cubs may now have a new curse. They finally seemed to be breaking the curse put on by stealing the 1908 season, because of Merkel's boner. But now, by hitting Aoki in the head, I new baseball curse will be put on the Cubs. I don't know if this will be another Merkel's season for them and then they will go another 107 years before they win a world series, or the curse starts now. As hitting Aoki, could knock off one of the Cubs major competitors, the giants, who are trying themselves to break the odd year curse. Can anyone give Matt Cain an injection of something legal that will get him his control back? Just an oddball stream of consciousness post. Don't get rid of Sanchez, get him a personal hitting coach.

JC Parsons said...

The idea that Hector Sanchez is too valuable or difficult to upgrade or replace is down right silly. It is goofy for us to really worry about it much but it takes about thirty seconds to generate available catchers, both from the minors or currently occupying benches. Hell, the Braves would even part with that bum AJ (they have two prospects and they only play him $2M). Several are just like Sanchez and a straight swap would probably help both clubs ( people like Ruiz, Avila, Navarro, Saltalamacchia ). And then there are the ones currently in the minors that have a blocked path or they are not meeting potential ( like Clevenger, Pinto, Romine, Stassi, Tony Sanchez ). As I said when I first started this criticism of Sanchez, I'm not thinking like a manager here but the notion that ANY move is impossible or that Hector is of any special value is crazy. He is just like Arias and there is always a time when these small pieces need an upgrade. Please don't just think this is based on one at bat, look at his stats ( even in the minors ) and then explain why he is still here. Ok enuf of that.

Any news on the silly Utley rumor? I'm sorry that one just doesn't make much sense. Unless Joe is hurting...

M.C. O'Connor said...

I don't think GMs view catching talent as fungible. If it was so easy to upgrade at the toughest spot at the diamond then you'd think the Giants would do it. Hanchez, for all his flaws, is still young. And a switch-hitter. There's not that many guys at "replacement level" at backstop in the world. And there's the complication that guys have to clear waivers to be traded at this point in the season.

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

I agree with MC about Utley. He should not be interested in being a bench player, and he is a big name and so should cost. Yet, the Phillies are a weird org, it seems to me, Amaro being the lead weirdo. Not Marlins weird, but still.

So they might want to save a couple million bucks, Utley was just sitting on the bench doing very little anyway.

And Utley might not want to be a bench player, but the Phillies are basically using him as a bench player, until this showcase to prime the trading pump, so he might be accepting of a bench role on a contender rather than a bench role on a non-contender. We don't know and he hasn't said.

I also agree with MC that this probably is much ado about nothing. The Giants kick the tires all the time on possibilities. They are all about the due diligence.

Still, if the Giants do think his bat is back, they could pick him up to start while Panik is out, as the back is a strange body part. Ishi was out a lot time with his back problem. Peavy said that he wouldn't be 100% this season with his back issues. Panik noted that he's flummoxed because he's never had back problems before, and frankly, a 24 YO having back problems suddenly is kind of a red sign, don't you think? So this back issue could be a season ender for all we know. Plus picking up a starter would relieve the team of the urgency for bringing him back soon, they could then just take their time, and then he'll be ready when he's ready.

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

Look at Sanchez's minors? The problem with looking at his minors is that he's been mostly in the majors since he was 22 YO, so the times he's spent in the minors lately is tinged with him being not 100% and dealing with stuff like concussions.

And the problem with looking at his minors before that was that he was many years younger than the league he played in. For example, he didn't have that great a batting line or peripherals when he was 21 YO and playing in AAA, but, first, he was 21 and playing in AAA, which only the best prospects are capable of doing (not saying he is a top prospect, just that he was probably over his head), and second, because of that, he was hitting against pitchers with 6 more years of experience and development than he had at the time. Meanwhile, at 21 YO, he had a nice season in Advanced A ball, hitting .302/.338/.533/.871 in a more age appropriate league.

The thing is, it is very tough to be a bench player period, even vets have difficulties keeping their bat sharp (heck, even DH have issues sitting around), harder still for a rookie to sit around and get sporadic ABs and keep his bat going, particularly when a catcher is suppose to focus more on his defense than his offense. He showed some good bat potential while in the minors, while facing much older competition.

That said, he's been pretty bad the last two seasons. OK, very bad. It appears that he has regressed a lot, and I would not lay all of that on the Giants either, I think these are the results of the effects of all the concussions he's gotten over the years. It probably hasn't helped that he's been lax about his weight either, Pablo was probably a bad influence on him regarding that.

But here's why I still stick behind him: he's an RBI guy. I know about the saber-issues with that term (and I consider myself a saber) but if you look back on his good first couple of seasons with us, when he was there the whole month, he was often among the team leaders in RBI. A metric I like to use to see "RBI-ness" is I divide RBI by AB, and good guys are generally over 15%, and he's usually over that, in spite of not batting in RBI parts of the lineup when starting.

To test this out further, I pulled his stats split by the situation on the bases.

Wow, click on his RISP and Men On stats and look at his career year by year numbers. As bad as the last two years have been, when he got runners on, he hits a lot better, even the last two seasons, he has hit at or above career norms for his hitting with men on base. It is his batting when the bases are empty where he falls down on. If that is not clutch, I don't know what is.

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

So I see why Bochy likes to have his bat around, he raises his performance up when there are men on base, at least so far.

This is why I've been hoping to keep both Susac and Sanchez around until Posey is ready to move to 1B full-time. I think Hector can be a great bat off the bench, but due to his full-time back-up catching duties, he gets injured a lot. I would like to see Susac as the starting C but with Posey kind of like a co-starter or at least a backup who starts a lot, so he gets his catching fix, but gets a lot of starts at 1B too. With the two of them starting most of the C, Sanchez can be the third C who catches occasionally, but can play 1B, 3B (2B?), other positions so that his full-time job is batting when guys are on-base.

Plus, I would rather melt down the three trophies than ever see AJP in a Giants uni again. :^)

But seriously, there are a lot of other catchers out there, but the fact is that Susac was just out for a couple of weeks, and I would rather have him being the back-up C than trade away for someone who would hold that role for the few weeks he was gone. Blaming Sanchez, a backup catcher, for the ails of any team is weak sauce, in my mind, why not pick on Pagan, the $10M veteran starter for doing the exact same thing, why not get mad that the umpire calls strike three on a pitch that was clearly on the outside, have you looked at that video for that game on, the umpire rings up Blanco but the small graphic plops the ball right outside the strike zone (I chose #3, that would have walked in a run, making it 2-1, with Duffman coming up, I would liked our chances then with the closer on the ropes like that).

JC Parsons said...

Yo, ogc. I sure never came close to blaming Sanchez for our troubles. In fact, I start the entire topic by saying I'm no manager and I was dumping on Hector out of anger. I also point out it is a topic of very little importance. So dumping the "weak sauce" on me is rather harsh. I'm not exactly sure what that is actually. Would maybe another example of "weak sauce" be blaming the strike zone for losing? ;)

Ron said...

The last time that Chase Utley had a very good year, Utley was 30, & my younger Son was starting Junior High. My Son is now about to start College. How does this guy, at age 36, get an unquestioned everyday role on a contending Team? I don't get it. 2/3 of his career WAR was earned during the 6 seasons to which I previously referred. Limited duration starter, bat off of the bench, etc. - that's his current status - or, a starter on a poor Team.

On the Hanchez topic, he has always shown flashes of offensive brilliance, including power, & is a switch-hitting Catcher. He has also had his ups & downs as a Catcher. There are a few old vets on Jon's list who would be OK, but I think that is alright to keep Hanchez around.

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

OK JC, sorry, forgot what you had said and just went on a roll. Mea culpa.

But I didn't mean to blame the strike zone for losing, I meant to say that poor strike calling by umpires in general is a better problem to complain about. We probably would have still lost - Duffy is no miracle maker - but I would have liked our chances. But that blown call cost us the chance to see what would have happened.

And I get that it's a double edged sword. We could easily move to machines calling strikes (just pipe the result to the home umpire's ear piece). But Posey is one of the kings of framing, and moving to machines would cost us more in that way, then what we gain hitting. So it is not like all is bad, but I guess I just prefer just the facts, ma'am, like Dragnet's Joe Friday, if our pitcher is better than your pitcher (and they often are :^) at throwing strikes, then I want them to have credit for that, and it goes both ways.

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

Just last season, per BB-Ref, Utley produced 3.7 WAR playing a full season. In spite of missing large parts of prior seasons, he has not had a season producing under 3.0 WAR until this season. Average of the last 4 seasons, which is below his great seasons: 3.5 WAR per season.

If he is that guy and not the guy at the start of this season - and he appears to be, based on his great hitting in SSS so far - then yeah, he should be a starter on a contending team. When you juxtapose that with having Adrianza or Tomlinson as the starter indefinitely, then it makes it more persuasive to get him to start. There might be better alternatives, but they will probably cost more in prospects, and there is some risk in taking him and paying all that money for nothing, but I rather the Giants pay in money than prospects.

M.C. O'Connor said...

Ron, you and I have different definitions of "good." Two 4-WAR seasons and two 3-WAR seasons in the last six, that's four good years in my reckoning. He's on the downside of his career, no doubt, but unless you are Dustin Pedroia or Robinson Cano you can't claim much better. Like I said he may be "done" but why we should expect that point of view from HIM is incomprehensible to me. The guy is the best second baseman of his era and I imagine he sees himself as having plenty left. These are world-class athletes--they didn't get there by harboring self-doubt. Sometimes they wake up and know they are finished, like Tim Hudson, but more often than not they have to be dragged off the field. Lots of guys have lasted for years eking out 1.5-2.0 WAR seasons. That being said I'd rather have a healthy Joe Panik.

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

Bumgarner! Complete game start, and yet at 105 pitches, threw one less pitch than Kazmir who had 106 for 5.2 IP. And still got 12 K's!!!

carmot said...

Eff yeah. Bumgarner with his highest GameScore (85) of the year! Unbelievable that it still doesn't top TWO of Heston's starts: 89 @ HOU and a ridiculously filthy 98 @ NYM for his no-no. Madison was absolutely brilliant. He is so special to watch. Just... WOW.