Tuesday, January 20, 2015

Giants' Silence About Pagan is Deafening

I am getting very nervous.  It is impossible to find one single word on the Internet about the comeback status of our very important, very valuable starting Center Fielder.  One would think that there would be some reassuring words or, at the very least, some words indicating concern.  But, there has been absolutely nothing.

Back Surgery is serious business, &, given the absolute silence on his part & on the part of the organization, I don't think that it is reasonable to count on Pagan at all in 2015.  Think about Scutaro in 2014 - that was another exercise in secrecy &, ultimately, in disappointment.

Is it any wonder that we have signed Aoki & Ishikawa (don't forget Justin Maxwell).  I think that it is very clear that the Giants are preparing for a Pagan-less 2015.

I hope that I am wrong.


M.C. O'Connor said...

I tweeted this post. Maybe something will show up on the sidebar.

Anonymous said...


Ron said...

Nice idea, but report is not very meaty. Does Bochy actually know something about Pagan's condition, or is he just saying that, if Pagan were healthy, he thinks that he would be the leadoff hitter? I'd like to know that Pagan is engaged in workouts, that the Giants' medical & training staff has seen him, that he has shown good range-of-motion, etc..

Zo said...

My guess is that no news is good news in this case. The Giants have not been linked with searching for more outfielders other than Aoki, to replace Morse. If Brian Sabean were still kicking the tires on outfielders, you'd probably hear about it.

Ron said...

I don't think that we're kicking the tires on OF's - I think that the back-up plan (i.e. most likely scenario) is to go into the season with Pence, Aoki, Blanco, Perez, & Ishikawa / Maxwell as the OF group. Between Belt & Posey, 1B is covered, so Ishikawa doesn't get a whole lot of playing time there.

The presumptions about Pagan's readiness are very similar to those about Scutaro leading up to Spring Training 2014. A couple of weeks into Spring Training, it was clear that something wasn't right.

I want to see recent video of Pagan swinging a bat & running around - that will comfort me substantially.

Zo said...

From today's Chronic:
Henry Schulman on the Giant's offense
Bruce Jenkins opines about Ryan Vogelsong, and
Buster golfs

M.C. O'Connor said...

Scutaro DFA'd to make a spot for Aoki.

Still on the payroll, final year of a 3-yr $20M deal.

Alas, a huge contributor to the 2012 title and a fun guy to watch play. Farewell, Marco, and thanks for the memories!

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

I'm not sure why all the angst over Pagan, other than projecting fears over Scutaro's situation onto Pagan's situation.

From what I can recall, usually no news is going to come out regarding players who were operated on during the previous season or during the current off-season other than bad news, like Bonds' infection. Even Derosa's problems didn't get exposed until spring training.

So no news is not exactly good news, but it's not bad news either.

Start of spring training isn't too far now, should know either way by then. But if it is as bad as you think it is, then wouldn't you think the Giants would be more urgently searching for a replacement? They've indicated an interest in OF all off-season, but had that on the back burner until now. If Pagan was in such bad straits (and one would think the Giants are in regular contact with him, since he should be going through rehab), I would think that they would have made a stronger effort to get a guy who plays CF, but could also move to LF if need be.

carmot said...

Hey, just checking in. I think I heard the Giants feel confident about Pagan starting on Opening Day. IIRC, it was a KNBR interview- maybe even more than one since SabEvBochy have all been on. Or it was Pav or Schulman. Wait, no, probably not Schulman. I'm not positive on this, but I think Pagan's already training in AZ.

What I can't find anywhere is a report about his knee. Does anybody else recall that week that started all the not-good things (in COL)? That was also a time when I saw reports that Pagan would need surgery on a slightly torn meniscus during the offseason. Well... Haven't seen news on that anywhere. Did they just forego it, and *hope* it gets healed on its own? That gives me some worry. Cheers.

Ron said...

Despite multiple reasonable points, I am far from reassured. This is a very public, outgoing guy who would normally be cavorting in the Puerto Rican Winter League & generally making a big fuss about how ready he is. He would want to be shown on TV running & batting & chit-chatting & doing his rock star thing. That's what I want to see - Angel Pagan, show us what you got!

Ron said...

Well, here's something, I suppose. Not exactly video & audio, but, these days, a tweet kind of passes for news:

'The San Francisco Giants tweeted Wednesday morning that Angel Pagan “had successful offseason surgery; all reports have him working hard and he should be good to go. Good news for Giants fans.'

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

Evidence the Giants read your blog!!!

Just remembered this, but wasn't the back surgery just when the season ended? I'm no doctor, but there should be at least 3 months of recovery and rehab, I would think. If so, that would bring us up to New Years. At that point, may as well save it for when things get real in ST, I would think.

Ah, found it: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2014/11/06/giants-offseason-priorities-pablo-sandoval-free-agency/18623847/

Bochy said Pagan told him during the World Series he felt good enough to play, a month after lingering back pain due to a herniated disk forced him to go under the knife. "He said the surgery was the best thing that could have happened to him,'' Bochy related. "It gave him instant relief."

I've been trying to find this quote and finally found it. Does that help your feelings about his back?

M.C. O'Connor said...

I tend to be a "no news is good news" kind of guy. Maybe Pagan needs his down time and is lying low.

Giants listed in Vegas at 20-1 to win the Series in 2015.

Got 'em right where we want 'em. Nats 11-2. Dodgers 8-1, Sawx, Cubs, Angels, Cards at 12-1, Tigers-M's-Jays at 14-, 16-, and 18-1. Giants tied with ChiSox. That's NINE TEAMS ahead of the defending champs. Hah! Just wait. They'll pick everyone else and then they'll look around and see the Giants still standing.

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

Ha ha, MC, good one!

I saw something similar on CSNBA, they talked about a different betting line, that had the Giants, I think at 16 to 1, and the host talked about how the Giants got no respect after winning the championship, then one of the commentators noted that this was an improvement over the 20 to 1 odds the year before (numbers are fuzzy, but generally right in relation to each other) and so the odds are at least better this year.

It was also noted that a lot of these odds are affected by the betting house's expectations regarding bets coming in for the team, thus teams near the betting house (like the LA teams near Las Vegas) would always get lower (better) odds simply because the house is trying to balance out the betting. I've seen this reasoning often about the 49ers betting at Reno betting houses.

nomisnala said...

This is speculation on steroids.

JC Parsons said...

I was trying to remember the "instant relief" quotes that came out right at the end of the series, thanks for finding those obsessive. That was the most positive report ever, but I guess Ron didn't catch that one. Granted there hasn't been any more news, but I don't think there is any special reason to worry about Pagan.
Just the usual fragile aging player thing. I view Blanco as Pagan's back up since Aoki is definitely an everyday top of the lineup guy that doesn't miss much time.

obsessivegiantscompulsive said...

When there is not a lot of news, speculation is all that is left.

YW JC, it drove me crazy because I knew I read somewhere that he said he was OK, but I couldn't find it.

It was the Lincecum quote about bringing his dad back, it was only mentioned in the SI interview, no other media was reporting on it, and that seems to be the same with this Pagan report as well.